03 July 2008

St. Joseph's Hill of Hope: Cult or the true Catholicism?


It is probably the most unusual part of Carbon Canyon, this large compound concealed in the hills north of Carbon Canyon Road just inside the Brea/Orange County border before you cross into Chino Hills and San Bernardino County (photo shows the facility from across the canyon). Rumors and gossip have abounded for some 40 years about this place of which many have heard but few know much.


In July 1967, Frances Marie Klug, wife of an insurance salesperson, announced that she had been visited by God with the "Directions that He knows man needs to follow, so that one day our Souls will be with Him in Heaven," as the St. Joseph's website states it. As a "true mystic," Mrs. Klug or Mother Frances has, as she expresses it, received the "Miracle of St. Joseph" and has compiled nearly 50 volumes of revelations over the last four decades.


On examining the St. Joseph's website, it is not particularly clear what the "Miracle of St. Joseph" is, in terms of where the namesake of the miracle comes in. What you do see is Mother Frances' elaborations on the Ten Commandments, as well as what appear to be her own "Seven Heresies," including Pentecostalism; Homosexuality, Lesbianism, and Abortion; Promiscuity; Communism; Organized Crime; Satanic Movement; and Hypocrisy.


There is also a section on the website devoted to the revelations given by Mother Frances with the note that "all Revelations are delivered spontaneously and continuously as witnessed by all those present at the time."


Evidently, Mother Frances was a devoted Catholic who broke from the church to form the St. Joseph's Hill of Hope congregation. A 1972 article in Time magazine states that Mother Frances channeled St. Joseph in her revelations to her congregation and that these visitations are the "Miracle of St. Joseph". Fifty-one at the time, Mother Frances is now in her late 80s and it will be very interesting to see what happens to the St. Joseph's Hill of Hope and the Miracle of St. Joseph when she passes away.


At any rate, here is the link for the magazine article:




I'm going to post the link to the St. Joseph's Hill of Hope website with the other links for those who are curious.

92 comments:

kev said...

My Father grew up in Placentia and went to St. Josephs Catholic Church ever Sunday in Plecentia. He told me years back that the lady that started the compound came from his church... is there an evidence of this or is it just a similarity why she called here following by a similar name.

Paul said...

Hello Kev, I'm going back through old posts and caught yours just now. I don't know where Frances Krug was from before she established her compound in Carbon Canyon. It would make sense she would stay somewhat close to home and also seems plausible that she would choose the same name. Maybe someone else knows the answer? Thanks!

Ej said...

I have walked on the hill to the back of their property and always have wondered why all the tall fences and barb wire?

Paul said...

Hello ej, Well, now that Frances Klug has died, we'll see whether the organization remains or not. Thanks for the comment.

Anonymous said...

I walked along the property up there too and I did not see any fence or barb wire that was different from the adjacent properties. Conspiracy theorists shouldn't post!!!
I'd like to look at this with an open mind.
But, I also went to the same church in Placentia and can remember the legal trouble that church got into when the priests there were accused of molestations so I don't get the Hill of Hope bashing when there is plenty to see elsewhere. I say this because I have read some of the books St. Joseph's Hill has published and I admittedly report that they have changed my life for the better.

prs said...

Hello Anonymous, there have been various statements made to me by Canyon residents about armed security personnel patrolling in vans around the property. But, I have no personal knowledge of that or other comments about the way the facility is secured. I agree that people should be open-minded and not be getting carried away with conspiracy theories (including the one I've seen on the Internet that has said the government has been using the site for mysterious purposes!) I've tried to avoid being judgmental and just report what I've come across on the facility. And, indeed, the Roman Catholic Church has much to answer for in comparison to their disavowal of St. Joseph's Hill of Hope. I say this as someone raised in the Church in O.C. Thanks for the comment!

Anonymous said...

the horses in your picture belong to Mr. Bill Friend of yorba linda. He ran the cows thru the hills from behind carbon canyon park all the way to what is the end of carbon canyon road state highway 142

Ej said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ej said...

Anonymous,

Check out the main compound using Google earth. Is that 8' fence around the building to keep people in or to keep people out?

prs said...

Hello Anonymous and EJ, thanks for your comments. Anonymous, I was just talking to a neighbor here in Sleepy Hollow who is getting ready to do an oral history with Bill Friend, so it will be interesing to see what comes out of that. Maybe I can obtain some transcripts to post on the blog.

EJ, at the last Carbon Canyon Fire Safe Council Meeting, there was some discussion about how willing the St. Joseph's people were to work with Chino Valley Independent Fire District personnel on fire suppression elements for the compound. A long-time department engineer commented that those fences were there for keep people out who might vandalize the property. So, that's one version!

Jessica said...

Speaking of Mr. Friend, my boyfriend, who lives in CH and his backyard overlooks the canyon, used to help round up Mr. Friend's cattle all the time when they got loose. It's funny to read his name somewhere!

We have driven through Carbon Canyon many times (I live in Orange County, so he comes down to get me) and I remember him telling me as we passed a road that a cult lived down that road. It had a kind of gate-thing in front of the road. Ever since he told me, I've been curious and doing lots of research...

prs said...

Hello Jessica, I understand an oral history may have been done with Mr. Friend recently and I was told his family has ranched in the Canyon for something like 100 or more years. Every so often, he can be seen in his vintage pickup tending to the animals, corrals and so on. It adds much to what remains of the rural atmosphere, however dwindling, of the Canyon. Thanks for the comment!

Anonymous said...

I can verify that there have been armed security guards present near the entrance of Hill of Hope, though I haven't seen any in a while. Years ago a fellow Sleepy Hollow friend and I hiked around the outskirts of the property- well above the official entrance- and we actually did see armed guards on that occasion, but were too high up and hidden by brush for them to take notice. Despite not having seen armed security guards for a while, I often see the same inconspicuous sedan sitting at the property's official entrance, which I find suspicious and bizarre. Do I think Hill of Hope is a cult? Yes, but I don't think they are doing anything criminal. Given all of the establishment's negative press, I can understand why it might feel armed security is necessary.

Anonymous said...

I know a lot of people from Carbon Canyon, and some friends who lived there in the 90's took their horses onto the property and were chased out by armed guards in jeeps. They came back without their horses the next afternoon and while sneaking around in the tall grass, they were attacked and blindfolded by men in black suits. Their fingerprints were taken, then they were thrown into the back of a van. They were driven around for a few minutes, then pushed out of the van. When they took off their blindfolds, they saw they were simply dumped off on the main road. Back then, the only building visible on the property was a small shed. 3 nosy locals crawling through the knee high grass caused 12 well-dressed and armed officials to jump out of a small shack and blindfold them. What are 12 guys in suits doing in a tiny shack, and how did they know my friends were crawling through the grass? There must have been cameras set up, and there must be an underground facility, otherwise, this doesn't make sense. So honestly, if you put together the facts, this doesn't sound like a religious cult... It sounds government related.

Unknown said...

Now that sounds more like it. That would explain the Stealth Fighters that flew over my house.

Anonymous said...

Stealth fighters?!?! Really?!?! If they were stealth fighters they probably wouldn't have flown so low as to be seen. Even so, this area is along a military flight path.

JD40 said...

As I read this article, the organization certainly is not Biblically founded or based, this is definitely a Catholic cult.

Anonymous said...

Please read my comments of July 30, 2012 posted after "Part 2" of the Hill of Hope story on this blog. I remember Mrs. Klug and her armed, uniformed guards coming to Sunday Mass at St. Joseph Church in Placentia halfway through services and then her leaving right after receiving Communion. She was a parishoner for a few years. But the St. Joseph Hill of Hope had no endorsement or connection with our parish, although the similar name caused confusion in the early years. By the way, her kids also attended St. Joseph School for a time. I still remember Fr. George W. Conboy at one Mass from the pulpit raising his voice and saying it was an affront to the sanctity of the church for armed guards to be present and he loudly stated he did not want firearms in the church. Several times I saw Mrs. Klug with her uniformed escort carrying pistols in holsters, wearing riding boots, etc. The first time I saw them, I thought they were CHP officers who were religious and they were attending services. When I found out they were guards "protecting" Mrs. Klug, I thought "what the heck?"

Anonymous said...

I will be honest...you people sound like you are insane. If all of you decide to say anything on this based on what you have read about it on the internet, you really have no weight behind any of your opnions. Do a lil more than read blogs on the matter...seriously.

Ian Carnochan said...

In 1986 myself and 6 of my friends hiked from the old abandoned ski slope that was in Carbon Canyon. Yes there was a artifical ski slop with a lodge and life chairs build a long time ago up there. We parked our truck near the lodge and hiked up to where there were three flags set up with a flag for the state of california, The US flag and a Christian flag. You needed to climb a 4-5 foot barb wire fence and hike a little ways farther to get to the flags. Once you got to the flags they had barb wire wrapped around the base as well as either camers or microphones attached to the flag poles. At the poles you could look dwon into the compound and there were a number of quanset huts and other out buildings. We were up there for a few minutes when we saw atvs (at that time three wheelers) coming up towards us. We bolted, flew over the fence and raced back to our truck. When we got to the truck we saw a few guys ( not dressed all in black) searching around the truck. We waited for them to leave and then got into the truck and raced home. No conspiracy theory or alien connection but maybe because of the proximity to weapons testing facility could explain the security? Who will ever know.

prs said...

Hello Ian, thanks for your comment. As other commenters have noted (and also mentioned by people spoken with in person), the Hill of Hope has, evidently, had armed security personnel patrolling their large parcel there over the years.

Anonymous said...

My son and his friends had heard that this was a cult so just yesterday they convinced me to stop to see what it was. The three of them went to the gate and a guard came out of the trailer. They said they were looking for the Boy Scout Camp. The man handed them 4 books and told them, "this is what we publish here" . The books were called Stories From Heaven , volume xxv. It is a journal of sorts from March of 2002 to July of 2002. They are the revelations received through the True Mystic, Frances Klug. I haven't read it yet, but quite interesting. They are satisfied now, I guess based on the definition of a cult, a religious movement whose beliefs are considered abnormal or bizarre by society, this could be considerded a cult. I wonder if you could tell the guy at the gate that you want to join....

prs said...

Hello Anonymous of 6 July, thanks for visiting and for the comment. Hill of Hope has been continuing about four years after the death of its founder, Frances Klug. As can be seen in comments here and on the other main post on the institution, there is plenty of debate about whether it is a cult or not.

Anonymous said...

Yikes!

MTR said...

Until recently, I was not aware of the Carbon Canyon Chronicle and the blog posts related to The Miracle of Saint Joseph. Understandably, Saint Joseph’s Hill of Hope is a topic of interest for the blog; however, I’m disappointed to discover that the blog includes information that seriously misrepresents the truth about this Miracle. I have supported, believed in, and loved The Miracle of Saint Joseph since 1970, when I first met Frances Marie Klug.

Through The Miracle of Saint Joseph, I have learned to focus on the purpose of life, the Ten Commandments, Sainthood, and the importance of my Soul. Everything from this Miracle is intended to promote holiness and lead people of all faiths to Sainthood. Whether or not the Catholic Church approves of the Miracle at this point in time, I’m confident that acceptance will occur one day. Historically, the Church has been reluctant to recognize genuine miracles such as the ones that occurred at Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe, among others. It’s certainly not surprising or uncommon for authority figures to question how God might work. Consider the story of Christ Himself, who suffered the ultimate rejection.

Frances Klug traveled to Rome several times and met with Pope Paul VI, Cardinal Raimondi, and other Vatican officials. Many, many clergy members came to the Miracle and believed in the validity of it. However, their superiors consistently discouraged them from endorsing The Miracle of Saint Joseph publicly.

Several of the Chronicle blog posts include misleading or wrong information about The Miracle and Frances Klug, and I cannot begin to address all of them. For now, I would like to point out that Frances Marie Klug was not a “seer.” She was a True Mystic who was chosen by God to deliver His Words to the world.

While healthy skepticism can be a very good thing, my hope is that the blog audience will consider how logical it is that God might send a special Miracle to help the world deal with the incredible challenges that we are currently facing.

With that, I encourage anyone who would like more information about The Miracle of Saint Joseph to simply read the Revelations that are available (without charge) on the website at www.themiracleofsaintjoseph.org. Thank you for this opportunity to offer another perspective, and God bless.

prs said...

Hello MTR, the posts in this blog were carefully written to avoid making personal judgments about St. Joseph's Hill of Hope. Readers can do that on their own without any encouragement here. If there was any agenda here, it would be easy enough to delete comments to serve that view, but that's not what this blog is here to do. Believers and non-believers should be free to express their differences with a request to be respectful. Thanks for the comment.

MTR said...

I left a response comment last week, but apparently a glitch occurred and it was missed. So I'll give it another try:

Hello PRS,
I totally agree that readers should be free to express their differences on the blog. I appreciate your willingness and fairness in publishing varying points of view, including mine. That's not the source of my disappointment.

To clarify, my disappointment lies not with the blog format or you, but rather with the way that Saint Joseph's Hill of Hope has been misunderstood (as reflected by the comments to some blog posts and by several inaccuracies within the posts). Although it's outside the scope of a blog to clear up so many misunderstandings, my earlier comment was intended simply as one small step in offering readers another point of view. Thank you!

prs said...

Hello MTR, thanks for the follow-up and for the clarification. I appreciate the fact that people can comment any which way about topics in this blog (within reason) and that, when it comes to religion, differences of view/opinion/belief are not so much about inaccuracy, but about faith. So, the debate(s) will continue . . .

Ej said...

Mr. MTR could you please address the high level of security at Saint Joseph’s Hill of Hope? Here in the United States religion is free from persecution so the perception Saint Joseph’s Hill of Hope gives off with it's high level of security only makes the rumors fly. Why not have a open house? Take the guarded gate and barbwire away and welcome the public with open arms?

MTR said...

Hello Ej,
You must have a different idea of "high level" than I do ... the security on Saint Joseph's Hill of Hope is fairly low key, at least in my book. The fence that marks the property line was actually installed by the previous owners and was already in place before the land was ever purchased by the Hill of Hope. The fence is not much different from others you typically see in rural areas. The neighbors actually appreciate the fence, as some of them have cattle and livestock to maintain.

The fence also discourages trespassers, because vandalism and property damage have occurred on the property in the past. Unfortunately, it's necessary to deal with the practical reality that we live in a world where some folks do go out looking for trouble. To think otherwise is naive. As you are probably aware, many churches have been forced to curtail their hours of operation and lock the doors due to vandalism incidents.

The Hill of Hope personnel respond to any potential trouble by simply reminding trespassers that the property is private and asking them to leave the land the way they came in. For those who refuse to leave or who become out of hand, the policy is to call law enforcement to handle the situation. But everyone is treated fairly and with respect, unlike some of the unfounded rumors you refer to.

The front entrance simply serves as a gateway to the property for volunteers and a place where mail and other deliveries can be received. For liability reasons, it doesn't make sense to have visitors arriving unannounced and driving all over 440 acres on dirt roads where they might encounter snakes, deer, coyotes, poison oak and so forth.

Anonymous said...

You people are out of your minds (in exception of a few rational) I have been on that property and its not a cult. There are no armed guards. There is one guy in a mobile home type guard shack to keep out idiots from tresspassing onto what was Frances Marie Klugs home!!! She lived there. There is a small staff who also lived there to help her take care of the property. They have members who all practice their catholic faith and also attend local churches. If you ever saw the CHP look a like on white harley davidsons was for funerals. There is only a few buildings on the property and at one time a small catholic school that I attended as a ten year old over thirty years ago. There is a grotto with a live well that has a holy water fountain that is pretty cool. There are marble statues here and there and catholic type shrines. She was just very religious but a very sweet and kind woman. She was totally legit as far as a know...I mean she kicked it with the pope. There were more members that held functions on the property and all over town. They donated to charities and raised money to help the poor etc. It is not a cult and a bunch of whack jobs dont live there with armed guards. Apparently Robert Klug had alot of dough and he and his wife Frances chose to buy that property and use it to share it with a small local catholic community. They dont need idiots coming on to the property to destroy the statues or shrines (that she paid for out of her pocket) or people off roading and getting hurt and suing. They are not hurting anyone or themselves...just catholics doing there thing. If you tresspass you are entering her home where her family lives. If that were my house and yard I would shoot any idiot that stepped foot but thats just me. So there you go. The rest of you go apply at macdonalds and do something productive with yourselves.

Anonymous said...

They hold church services and prayer meetings on sundays for roman catholics. If you are a legitimate catholic you could attend church services there. If you are trying to enter under other circumstances then obviously you are not welcome. How would you feel if those three geniuses came to your front door poking around and asking questions because they have a moral responsibility to report to the public what your doing in your home. Liberal life sucking deadbeats need to mind your own business and get a job. Stop worrying about what other people have and earn your own. I said earn not steal or tresspass on other peoples property sticking your nose where you shouldnt. Now as for Frances Marie Klug being some religious cult leader is nonsense. She felt she was a true mystic and wanted to change bad things going on in the catholic church. She devoted her life to this and helping people to better themselves. So what If she talked to god...she tried to teach people some morals. There is no coolaid drinking or child slaving armed guards in vans. I mean this guy with the reputation of chino hills crap. What about the strip club owning tax evading pimp who was murdered in his carbon canyon home in the 80s. All you can do is cry about some 80 year old religous woman who tried to save the world??? What the hell is wrong with you people. Thats why there is an 8 foot gate to keep you losers at bay. Who cares about people praying on a hill??? Is it so loud your windows are rattling??? In this country everyone has a right to religion. In this country you can own PRIVATE PROPERTY! In this country you can own FIREARMS! I invite anyone to enter my private property to see my firearm...you will find religion as I exercise my baddass redempion of your sins. Pick on me not some 80 year old churchlady who tried to tell the priests to not touch kids and fix the wrong in the church. Was she knocking on your door with her stories from heaven? No she had the dude at the gate hand it out because your a moron and would probably benifit. yours truly...St Joseph.
And oh yeah...STAY OFF MY HILL!!!

Ej said...

Are you saying that Frances Krug is so afraid of trespassers she feels the need to place high security fences around each of the compounds? Are you also saying her church will not welcome anyone outside the religion?

Anonymous said...

Shes dead genius... do you have a door on your house or do you let some thug come in and vandalize and steal. No amount of you running your idiot mouth will make you right. G.f.y.

Ej said...

Door yes. High security fence no. Please if you can answer the questions in a decent tone. Were you taught to talk like that at the compound?

prs said...

Hello Anonymous of 24 November: let me say again that there is no position being taken on the St. Joseph Hill of Hope on this blog. If you're a member of the church, you're obvious entitled to defend the church to Ej or anyone else who has questions about it or is opposed to it--to which views they also are entitled. But, if there are personal attacks, name-calling, and so on, then a line has got to be drawn and comments can be deleted, which is not the desired result here. Debate is welcome, but let's keep it civil, whether you are a believer or not.

Anonymous said...

Ok but you keep asking the same question over and over. Several people answered your question. You have the answers. That makes you annoying. You just keep repeating what you would like the situation to be. Go get your dictionary and sit down with some coffee and re-read. You are either slow or you want fantasy. We live out here to have privacy. YOU are the one trespassing and breaking the law. Put your tape measure away and stop measuring the size of the gate...who cares??? The gate was already there. Everybody has a fence. Do you need to hear about that they are aliens with coolaid and they are cooking meth??? You have the answer ten times over. Believe what you want...call the FBI and tell them you would like to head a full investigation. I can make up some liberal hippey story for you if you cant grasp the reality. Sit back and let the grown folks talk.

prs said...

Hi Anonymous, this is not Ej, who you were having the exchange with--this is the person who keeps the blog. I'm just asking for people to be reasonable in their comments. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Let me tell you something prs...you are the worst offender here and I will tell you why respectfully even though im livid. In no way do I represent the hill or affiliated due to my lifestyle. When you verbally bash otherwise harmless, religous people mostly in their twilight years (especially deceased) by putting this nonsense out offends alot of reasonable people. You are putting yourself out for the same. When I personally happen upon elderly, children or anybody being persecuted or abused for no reason it does not set right with me and most people. Almost like a community bully in so many words. This blog is bullshit. I dont think you would appreciate me calling you out in the community and making up bs about what you do on your property and in your home. I am sure that the people at the hill would be offended by the way I bluntly speak even if its in their favor.I dont care. I would not sit by and watch someone get abused for no reason. These people are harmless. You should be greatfull its not some obnoxious crazy neighbors we have over there doing things that REALLY are up to no good and terrorizing our community. I mean please...its like kicking amish because you dont like there hats. You seem like a reasonable person. Have a little respect and you'll get the same. Kick the harmless around and one day it will come around.

prs said...

Hello Anonymous, did you see my comment of 18 October 2010? Or the exchanges with MTR, a longtime member of the Hill of Hope, just within the last month, including my replies to MTR on 28 October and 4 November? Can you point out where the posts on this blog verbally bash the Hill of Hope or persecute and abuse its members? It's fair enough to disagree with what's on this blog, but I went out of my way to report what others have published and kept my opinions out of it. Show me otherwise and we can go from there.

Ej said...

While I have never set foot on St. Josephs property I have seen it from my adjoining property over the years. For anyone who might be curious here is the three separate buildings at the rear of the property not seen from the street. To me the fencing doesn't keep people off the property since the property is not fenced in with this tall security fence but rather the fencing is placed around each building almost like they were more interested about keeping someone or something in. Anyways here is a link you can see for yourself.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/Brea-CA/17150_rid/days_sort/33.955917,-117.792859,33.955276,-117.793858_rect/19_zm/

Anonymous said...

I agree. It doesn't look like any church I attended. Lots of concrete.

Ej said...

Fun stories to read:

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-09-04/local/me-623_1_chino-hills


http://www.ocregister.com/articles/klug-536550-hill-hope.html


Anonymous said...

Ok so yes I have seen what you put in your comments. The fact is your title refers to the hill as a cult. If I posted a blog asking if your a child molester or do you just like to hang out with kids would be totally offensive. You are doing the same thing. These people are religious and what you are saying is about as offensive as that to them. Now im sure you are not a child molester like they are not a cult. You refuse to accept the truth and its far past ignorance at this point. Do you think im just trying to cover up some conspiracy? It does not make sense. There is not some group of people living there againts their will. There is no coolaid drinking and so on. There is a house that the surviving family members live in. There is another building that used to be a small school. I have no idea what they use it for now. That does not mean 40 people are posted up with guns for Jesus to arrive. There is a large warehouse type building that they use as a chapel. There are more smaller buildings they use for storage for chairs and statues etc. They have religous functions on and off the property and store the stuff in those buildings. People show up on sunday for church services and during the week for other smaller functions. There is only a few people on the property otherwise. How is that a cult? Oh I forgot... the 8 foot fence...maybe we should Assume things due to the fact you really dont have a clue since you are ignorant to what goes on. Well now your not. Does what im saying make sense or does the fantasy of yours sound better. Its like talking to a stubborn five year old. You only want to hear what you want. You can spin all day long but the facts are facts. You are offending these people for no reason because YOU dreamed up a situation due to ignorance. You are the one who created the blog...no other info on web states this except yours. Does not matter to you what goes on up there...you keep going on about it and that makes you a fool.

prs said...

Anonymous, the title asks a question: "Cult or True Catholicism?" Mrs. Klug and her followers believe the latter and their views have been given in this blog, while some people think the former and their opinions also are featured. I've never once said it was a cult nor have I said anything critical about the organization. They have every right to be there and practice their religion their way. If you don't accept what I've said here, there's nothing more for me to say about it.

Finally, there are, actually, other Web pages in which the word "cult" is used in discussing the Hill of Hope. Here are links to a few:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/klug-536550-hill-hope.html?page=3

http://www.insidesocal.com/davidallen/2008/04/03/sleepy-hollow-needs-edit/.

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-earth-browsing/6UmB-NSHqzU

http://www.strangeusa.com/articles/57490/_Chino_Hills__Chino_Hills__CA

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is-the-carbon-canyon-cult.

Tim said...

When I lived in Sleepy Hollow back in the 70's, a friend and I got caught trespassing on their property, and they called the Brea police on us.Not very friendly of them.

Katedee said...

I came across this blog as our MSJ Capistrano docents let us know about the future talk about Carbon Canyon and as a native of Orange County my parents actually joined a country club there in the mid 1960's and I loved the area so read this blog. As a knowledgable Catholic who was raised during the latest attempt to destroy the faith (which is ongoing) I am greatful that such a place exsists. There are many pre novos ordo churchs that are in isolated areas and bad areas due to the expense of financing a church where God is actually worshipped. There are never fund raising just giving by the people who attend to support building and the brave Priest who worship as had been done for almost 2,000 years. The thing is that the gossip is destroying good. To encourage gossip is to participate in it and so you are a part by allowing and supporting it. Thanks to those who call you out on your passive approval. "Failure to comdem is to condone".

prs said...

Hello Katedee, thanks for your comment. To reiterate what has been said to other commenters: what has been posted on this blog about St. Joseph's Hill of Hope is presenting information (not opinion) on one aspect of Carbon Canyon's history and current affairs.

If people choose to comment and offer their opinions, then generally no censorship is going to take place, although this administrator (who was raised Catholic, but refrains from offering opinions on this topic) retains the latitude to remove posts.

The bottom line is this blog does not "condemn" free speech (nor has there ever been
encouragement, condoning, or "passive approval," however that may be defined, of "gossip"), even if there are those who don't like what is being said . . . whether it is for or against(or neither) St. Joseph's Hill of Hope.

The most popular post, by far, on this blog is about the murder of a strip club owner and there have been dozens of posts by people who were (or maybe are still) part of that industry, including the man who committed that crime. Comments are not censored there and, in fact, are welcomed within reason, but is posting about that historical incident an embrace and condoning of stripping or, for that matter, of murder?

kevalar said...

MTR, does the "Miricle of St. Joseph" declare in any way that St. Joseph himself is the Holy Spirit? I have heard that Frances Klug espoused that teaching. Please clarify. Thank you

MTR said...

In response to the question from Kevalar: Yes, absolutely. As early as 1977, the Divine Revelations given through The Miracle of Saint Joseph included the announcement that Saint Joseph, in reality, is The Third Person of The Holy Trinity. With thoughtful consideration, one can easily see the logic and truth of Saint Joseph being so much more than a Just, Holy Man. Also, this helps explain the title of The Miracle.

My apologies for the belated response, as I did not notice the latest blog post until recently.
MTR

Ryan H. Turner said...

Not going to add to the "cult" discussion as I'm particularly sensitive that term being Mormon, HOWEVER, I DID just go hike from my house up to the water towers northeast of Olinda Village, then out the trail to the "8 ft fence with barbed wire". If I could post pics I would. It's very much there. And I never ever thought it was for anything BUT keeping idiots out. It's private property. Period.

I AM intrigued by someone claiming that God would speak to them...just from a "I wonder what happened" sort of thing. To the person who claimed men in suits blindfolded them and essentially kidnapped them....I'm wearing thigh boots to wade through your b.s. Please.....

Brandon said...

The anonymous from November 24-26 2013 telling people to "get off my hill" is clearly not absorbing the word of God. I wonder if more of the members up there are as defensive and hostile as this anonymous...individual.

ROMANS 14:13

Michelle Rouse said...

In 2012 a horse trainer I worked for had his training facility right across the road from where the old ski slopes are. He was new to the area and had no clue about this property's history. He went out on one of his horses and came to the fence near the statue, found an opening in the fence and rode through it. As he got closer to the statue he was approached by 3 jeeps with heavily armed men wearing military camo attire. Their guns were on him and he raised his hands in the air appologizing and was quickly escorted off of the property exactly where he got in from. The next day we rode back up there and the hole had been repaired. We weren't going to go back on the property, he just wanted to show me the statue which you could see clearly from the other side of the fence. There is a sign on the fence too that does say "Saint Joseph's Hill of Hope" but didn't seem like a religious group that escorted him off the property.

Also, had a friend who was a fire fighter and when the canyon was burning they tried to get access to the property to use their water source and were denied access by armed guards. Another friend is a police officer and he said he got called to the property one evening but was also denied access by armed guards.

How could a religious group have more power than law enforcement. Moreover, how and why would a religious group have military type jeeps, military type attire and military strength artillery? Something to ponder.

Anonymous said...

My mother was a believer in The Hill of Hope. I've been on the property many times but it has been over 30 years. A lot of the accounts in the comments seem pretty over the top! Armed guards pointing guns? Haha, I think there may be some exaggerating going on. I remember the "guards" as retired men who volunteered. They had guards because Francis received a lot of threats.

From what I remember, the property had a house, a grotto with a large statue of St. Joseph, and a few other buildings. There was a school on the grounds in the early 80's with probably around 100 kids. The followers were all Catholics who believed the church had lost its way. They believed in the traditional mass.

I don't think it was a cult ( I was one of those school children), just a bunch of really devoted Catholics who didn't like change.

Unknown said...

My family is big fans of the hill of hope. We have all the books. My dad would help at the gate. We went to Church there. Father Milito who has passed away was a very kind man. It dose seem closed off to the public. We would sign in at the gate and go up to the church it's just a small church with very nice people. All who know each other every well. They promote books. That my mother hands out to anyone who wants it. We are Catholic. Hope this helps.

Ej said...

Here are a few photos of how Hill of Hope currently looks. Eight foot chain link fences topped with barbed wire around all the buildings. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Overall view of the grounds http://i.imgur.com/aKW3lw3.png

Close up http://i.imgur.com/vlMiTJT.png

Locked entrance and guard trailer http://i.imgur.com/lJVAqPk.png

Unknown out building http://i.imgur.com/NR9Z10M.png and http://i.imgur.com/0zeaKTK.png

This shack overlooks the entire property http://i.imgur.com/GvGHDeg.png

I have never seen a Catholic church so well protected. Maybe they are getting ready for a visit from the Pope :)

deshawn said...

she ordered a hit on her son jack.
it's believed he's buried underneath the concrete (it was put down right after the poor bastard went missing. and they were known to bump heads..may she rot in hell)

Ej said...

Now we are talking. I wonder just how thick that concrete is? I also describe the hilltop shack incorrectly. I should have said it was a bunker.

Gemini Lazarus said...

her son's name probably wasn't actually jack. but she did have a son. where is that son, america? are we just going to stand by and allow dangerous cults like these to torment children and brainwash people? in our own goddamn backyards??? have we learned NOTHING from jonestown? it is my personal belief that all religion is dangerous, but it should be recognized objectively that organized cults like HOH and others are a cancer to the wellbeing of society and people in general.

why do you think they NEED those armed guards? so that outsiders won't know the horrors happening inside. REAL CHILDREN are being affected by shit like this, and it's all just getting swept under the rug. i'm not a crazy conspiracy theorist, though i can see how to some who havent experienced this or havent researched it could think it was all just the ramblings of some neckbeard with a tin foil hat. but this shit is real, and it is dangerous.

may cults like these one day be eradicated.

lubabe69 said...

I read as many comments as i could until it started getting silly. people asking legit questions about this place, making statements about what they've encountered in the hills THEN being called insane because of said statements and questions? something is really wrong here. some comments made by believers contradict one another.(the fence was there when the property was bought then it's to keep out trespasses} it seems even over a silly fence their's bullshit. If you can't read a book without being told what it says then you're easily lead and can be easily fooled. i couldn't agree more with Gemini,people like klug are power mad and will even torture kids to keep that power. 99% of these preachers are about power and money, if folks dont see the con then you're ripe for the picking.

Ej said...

With the new Hillcrest development sharing fence lines with HOH there will probably be more information discovered. Should make for some wonderful childhood memories having a barbwire and armed guard compound has your neighbor.

Anonymous said...

I'm from da OC, and went through RCIA (RCC adult catechism) in the late Eighties, when the new Bishop of Orange (with the Bishop of San Bernardino) banned the Hill-of-Hopers from any and all diocesan facilities or property, and had announced from the pulpits that this was a CULT. Here's what I remember:

Like most Catholic-based cults (such as the Baysiders), this one was said to have started with a "visionary" channeling Mary and/or St Joseph and adding them to the Trinity until (as one catechist put it) "They're up to a Five-Person Trinity by now". (Understand, "Mary Channeling" is a characteristic way for Catholics to flake out.) More visions and "channeling" followed; the usual Tridentine Latin Mass, denunciation of Vatican II, plus only Communion taken directly from the hand of a Priest (not a lay Eucharistic Minister) was valid. The last was soon even more restricted to only those Priests vetted by "St Joseph and Mary" through the channeler.

Around 1986-87, the new bishop shut them down. HARD. HoHers banned from diocesan property, priests "approved" by the channeler reassigned far far away, and generally kicked out.

After being kicked out of the Diocese, they were said to have set up a compound where Orange & San Berdoo counties/dioceses came together, and there were some scary stories going around about people who had checked out/stumbled upon the compound. Fences, guards, everyone in uniforms/habits. Sounded like "Jonestown with Rosaries".

And that's what I remember hearing about them.

Recently I was spending much too much time on YouTube going through channels which read off allegedly true paranormal/weird/horror story accounts and came across one about "4 Disturbing REAL Cult Encounters" by Lazy Masquerade. I was surprised when the second story on the video was "The Hill of Hope", and the location and description checked out. Which included a personal account anecdote suspecting the cult founder of the disappearance of her "rebellious" son. Second story on this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvK2M1faiu8.

Ej said...

I am so getting a drone. Preferably one with night vision.

kevalar said...

MTR, thank you for your 8/7/14 response. You understand that such a teaching that ascribe divinity to St. Joseph, or Mary for that matter, is entirely heretical and outside the pale of orthodox Christianity. You do realize that it places St. Joseph Hill of Hope and it's followers in the same basket as Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses and Moonies (Rev. Son Meon Moon)?

kevalar said...

MTR, one more question... My old neighbors, Herb and Mary Wolf, would take me up to HOH back around 1973-1974, probably around the time it was just getting established. They and a group of others were transitioning out of St. Joseph Catholic Church Placentia at the time, presumably at the urging of Mrs. Klug. Herb Wolf passed away a few years ago, but I believe Mary is still living. Do you know if Mary is still involved with HOH?

Kevin O'Brien said...

When I was attending Troy High School in Fullerton, CA (1972-1976) I had a teacher who was the greatest mentor I ever knew, John Chaffey. I would help him almost every day in "Graphic Arts" class, where we printed all kinds of things for St. Joseph's Hill of Hope. I printed up all their radio codes and security protocol. I assisted with silk screening posters for "Fashion Shows" and other activities that were fund raisers for the Hill. I remember him telling me about coordinating security there and how the security officers were all armed with revolvers and at least shotguns. I never asked why or much about it and I was the only person he trusted to print any security papers or books because I was sworn to secrecy and I was absolutely loyal to him. after high school I drove by the Hill on my way out to Chino Hills where I moved in 1980. Every time I drive by the Hill I think of Mr. Chaffey and how he helped turn me into a responsible adult. I spent 34 years in law enforcement and always wanted him to see me in uniform, but it never came to be.

His son Steven worked at the Alpha Beta on Orangethorpe and Brookhurst in Fullerton while I worked at Thrifty's while I went to college. I never believed anyone who called the Hill a "cult." I attended a Pentecostal church and if there had been any kind of conflict with that and the Catholic faith preached at the Hill, Mr. Chaffey would have said something to me. Now I want to drive out and see if anyone there remembers him. He was a good man.
Kevin O.

Anonymous said...

Let me tell you what that compound WAS, if not still IS, to this day. I was 'taken' there in 1971 for 'misbehaving' at my home. I was beaten, molested, among other horrific things. AT THAT COMPOUND. For those that do not believe me, I couldn't care less. But I DO want all of those that are TRULY curious/interested as to 'what that place' is? It hold's children and young adult's captive. It programs (or used to) the kids into their belief system, which is sick, twisted and ILLEGAL. It took 14 year's; 3 times a week, for me to be de-traumatized by my 'experience' there.
It was not a government site then. It was an illegal compound that held children whom were deemed 'depressed', 'uncontrollable', and other such things.
I have seen such horrific things happen at that place that for a LONG time, I just couldn't live in OC anymore. Once I was 'rescued' (another story) I HAD to leave the state.
By the way, I am not saying that they still do this, but they DID FOR YEARS. And, this is not the only compound for such things. Believe me. It is a horrifying, demeaning, illegal place. God only know's what goes on there now.

Ej said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ej said...

So the barbwire currently surrounding the compound gives credence to your post. As I have always said, churches don't have barbwire and guns.

Unknown said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Robert Huddleston said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Robert Huddleston said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Robert Huddleston said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Ej said...

http://i.imgur.com/lICk36W.png


Can you tell us how you were rescued?

Anonymous said...

TODAY IS MAY 22, 2017. STARTING SHORTLY AFTER 3:00 P.M. SOME TYPE OF MILITARY-ESQUE OPERATIONS ARE OCCURRING ON THE SJHOH PROPER. THERE ARE AT LEAST 6 UNMARKED BLACK HAWK TYPE HELICOPTERS AND 4 SMALLER ONES COMING IN FROM THE NORTH BETWEEN THE HILLS. ALL ARE IMPRESSIVELY ARMED AND THE OCCUPANTS I COULD SEE WERE ALL IN BLACK TACTICAL OUTFITS WITH NO VISIBLE MARKINGS.
*
IF ANYONE IS OUT BY THE GATE THERE HAS BEEN A CARAVAN OF ALL BLACK GMC YUKONS. MY NEIGHBOR COUNTED ABOUT 30 OF THEM. THERE WAS ALSO A CARAVAN OF 12 HUGE FORD TRUCKS PULLING 6X HORSE TRAILERS WITH VERY LARGE BLACK FRIESIAN TYPE HORSES, FOLLOWED BY 4 MORE YUKONS. WE CAN HEAR VOICES ON SPEAKERS BUT CAN'T DECIPHER IT.
*
AT ABOUT 5:30 P.M. ONE OF THE NEIGHBOR KIDS CAME RUNNING OUT OF BREATH. HE AND A FRIEND WENT UP THE SIDE OF THE WEED COVERED HILL AND SAID THEY WERE WATCHING HELICOPTERS THAT LOOKED THEY WERE ON SOME KIND OF ELEVATOR OR THE LIKES; ALL BEING LOWERED UNDERGROUND. ONLY TWO WERE STILL SITTING UP ON ROLLERS. THE CARS AND YUKONS WERE DRIVEN INTO A HUGE GARAGE. THE KIDS SAID AN ENTIRE BUILDING LIFTED UP AND TILTED TO AN ANGLE AND ALL THE CARS AND YUKONS DROVE INTO AN OPENING UNDER THE BUILDING. THE KIDS SAY THEY WERE SEEN BY A SECURITY GUARD WHO WAS OUTSIDE THE FENCE,BUT AS SOON AS THEY GOT WITHIN VIEW OF CC ROAD THE GUY JUST DISAPPEARED INTO THE BRUSH. THERE MUST BE HIDDEN ACCESSWAYS. WILL REPORT MORE AFTER DARK IF WE SEE OR HEAR ANYTHING. I'M CALLING THE BREA POLICE TO ASK QUESTIONS AND SEE WHAT THEY MIGHT BE ABLE TO SHED LIGHT ON. VERY WEIRD COMBINATION OF STUFF UP THERE!
Canyon Navigator Bob

prs said...

To commenters of this post: This morning, I removed some comments from 22 May that I felt were inappropriately verbally attacking and physically challenging other commenters. I understand these are "just words." However, in 2013-14, there were a series of comments that were also an issue to the extent that I posted this in October 2013: "the posts in this blog were carefully written to avoid making personal judgments about St. Joseph's Hill of Hope. Readers can do that on their own without any encouragement here. If there was any agenda here, it would be easy enough to delete comments to serve that view, but that's not what this blog is here to do. Believers and non-believers should be free to express their differences with a request to be respectful." I think this is a very reasonable approach and will continue to encourage respectful discussion, but also delete comments when I believe it necessary. Thank you.

Kevin O'Brien said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
prs said...

The most recent comment on this post, while professing support for my deleting disrespectful comments, used other disrespectful comments while doing so. So, it, too, was deleted. Again, if comments verbally attack other commenters in ways I think are disrespectful, no matter which "side" is taken, they will be removed. Thank you.

Robert Huddleston said...

Lame

Kevin O'Brien said...

PRS,
I apologize for that posting and respect your privilege to moderate your blog board as you see fit for the general audience.

Respectfully and Sincerely,
KO

Anonymous said...

I am interested in hearing more about the events and observations of "Canyon Navigator Bob.I fly my Cessna from Fullerton to Palm Springs a couple times a month. Three times in the last two months I was advised by SNA TCA and Lancaster TCA that I had to change my flight path away from flying over Carbon Canyon as it was"restricted air space." Other days I've had no problems. About five months ago I was flying into SNA and was directed by TCA to switch my transponder to a number I've never used and then told to switch to another channel where lo and behold I was told i was being tracked by a Dept. of Homeland Sec. Cessna running without any lights on my 9 o'clock side. I do not want to reveal the squawk or talk channels because there had to be a pretty good reason that area of the canyon is restricted airspace and I was intercepted by the DHS Cessna and then an unmarked Lear, both of whom advised they were escorting me out of the flightpath I apparently slipped into. When I landed at SNA I was surprised to be met by DHS, FBI and the OC Airport Police who said I was receiving an "emphasized" warning about flight path variations in the Carbon Canyon area. I now avoid the area entirely but something is up out there.

prs said...

Hi Kevin, I really appreciate your understanding about this. I know that HOH can be a charged and sensitive topic. It's a fascinating part of the history. Again, thanks for that!

RMA said...

To Anonymous of May 2, 2017 and May 22, 2017, there is absolutely no truth in your post. IF you were taken to a piece of property in Carbon Canyon in 1971 and held captive, tortured and molested, I'm sorry for you, but it was NOT on Saint Joseph's Hill of Hope! The HOH was purchased from the previous owners in 1972. For all who have taken time to read through these posts most of them are silly dribble filled with such outlandish conspiracies! Jack Klug is alive and well and supports The Miracle of Saint Joseph. He, or nobody else is buried on the property!
Saint Joseph's Hill of Hope is privately owned and operated. As someone commented earlier, the fence that surrounds the HOH property is similar to other fences in rural areas to mark property lines and keep livestock in place. The HOH works well and complies with the Chino Hills Fire Dept. If there are trespassers they are asked to leave the way they came in. If they become belligerent law enforcement will be notified. There are no black SUV's with men in camo, or all in black, or carrying guns. You all need to get a life.
The Miracle of Saint Joseph, which came to the world through a chosen instrument, Frances Klug, has helped literally thousands and thousands. There is not enough time to go into the details here. Feel free to visit the official website: www.themiracleofsaintjoseph.org

Channel6 PublicAccess said...

As a child, I went to school at the Hill of Hope until the school was shut down.

I didn't understand much as a child, but in hindsight, it makes more sense now.

The premises of the Hill of Hope was to essentially restore the Garden of Eden, by recruiting Roman Catholics. This was a common theme in those times, including The Unification Church proclaiming Father Moon was the second coming of Christ. Just as The Moonies recruit Christians, then convert them, Mother Frances recruited Roman Catholics to convert them into the congregation of The Miracle of St Joseph.

Upon reading the Revelations, one will not find love, but rather a guilt trip that more people need to believe in the Miracle. The Revelations are riddled with intolerance of others, especially homosexuals. The revelations speak of the importance of one's Soul, yet is intolerant of souls that that follow a different path.

Mother Frances encouraged the congregation to be intolerant of everyone not associated with The Miracle, including making the congregation absolutely paranoid of others. She encouraged everyone to protest the Catholic Church, and to intimidate anyone that wasn't a true Roman Catholic, especially to harass priests that were in her eyes corrupt.

Mother Frances had the men's group be her armed guards to protect her, and claimed that Satan was using his human mentions to attempt to end The Miracle. The paranoia continued. Sounds familiar, as this is also the M.O. of the Moonies of the same era.

As a kid, this all seemed normal, but in hindsight, The Miracle is completely devoid of any love for others, and was just a pyramid scheme to pay for the compound. The a revelations only critique the congregation that not enough people believe in The Miracle. The Revelations never once speak of loving others unconditionally.

Mother Frances never went out in public, and was always hiding. She was not a public servant of any kind. Most of the Revelations were revealed behind closed doors, as witnessed by all those presumably present. The Dalai Lama has done more for our world than Mother Frances, The Chinese gov't tried to kill him, yet he goes out in public. Something is fishy with this 'True Mystic' that must hide in a secret compound.

In order to go onto the compound, one had to be recruited by a member of the congregation, and be escorted around by that person. No open access for anyone hoping to save their soul.

All in all, Mother Frances suckered hundreds of Roman Catholics into paying for her compound, and tricked them into believing God was preaching intolerance of others through her.

To my knowledge, there were no acts of violence towards any of the congregation, nor any sexually abuse. Those stories are just a smear campaign. There was certainly brainwashing, and psychological manipulation of the entire congregation, especially when it comes to making people hate others, then programming everyone to be paranoid of any outsiders.

If you have any specific questions, I'd love to answer them, based on my first-hand experience.

Channel6 PublicAccess said...

...continuing from my last post, and after reading more of the comments, most are nonsense by the way...

Mother Frances does have a son, and he is/was a CHP Officer, last name is also Klug. He is probably retired now. I don't remember if she had any other children, as I was a child when I was going to school at "The Hill," as this was the name the congregation calls it. Her son was never involved with The Hill, and was most likely a non-believer.

It is not a government compound at all. The buildings on the property are: Mother Frances' house, a church, a warehouse they keep garage sale items in, a shop for fixing heavy equipment, and the front gate security trailer. I don't remember any other buildings. They did publish books somehow, so there may be printing presses, and related offices somewhere, unless some other publisher created the books called "Stories From Heaven." It has been over 20 years since I've been there.

Channel6 PublicAccess said...

...
The statues were put there in the 70s, one of them being surrounded by glass walls, to prevent vandals from throwing rocks at it. There is also a natural spring there they call The Grotto. It is claimed to be healing Holy Water, and The Grotto water was for the congregation only, because supposedly Satanists were trying to do voodoo stuff with the water. So this Grotto was to be kept a secret, and the water only used by the congregation. Satan is a common theme to keep people paranoid.

The congregation were genuinely good Roman Catholic families that wanted to take their faith to he next level. They were all used by Mother Frances, and there were plans and architectural drawings of what The City of God was to look like, with a hospital, gardens, buildings dedicated to Catholic saints, healing pools fed by The Grotto, and so on.

Mother Frances hated all the bikers of Sleepy Hollow, and hated all their next door neighbors, and had the congregation paranoid that these neighbors wanted to kill her. They had listening devices, and loudspeakers along the perimeter of the property. They are probably still there. They had a loud speaker at the front gate too, and would turn people away without even opening the gate. All the congregation were required to sign a logbook every time they went in or out of that gate.

The men were armed up until about the mid-80s, when one day a loaded gun was found somewhere, and Mother Frances then told the men to stop carrying guns. Security was 24/7, and the guards were absolutely paranoid that some devil worshipers from Sleepy Hollow wanted to end The Miracle.

Mother Frances was a very nice and sweet lady as I remember her. I only saw her a few times as a child, because she was always hiding in her house. She claimed to have the stigmata many times a year, and it was too painful for her to leave her house.

Channel6 PublicAccess said...

...As an adult I went to the men's meetings a few times, where the Revelations were given. I now see why children were not allowed to go to the adult meetings. Most times God the Father yells at the men that not enough people were believing in The Miracle, or God was being disparaging towards homosexuality, lesbianism, abortion, and other heated topics of immorality. The saints had no problem yelling at he men too. Just read the Revelations for yourself, they are directed solely towards the congregation, and the congregation was to spread these Revelations around the world. The revelations are guilt trips, and online for everyone to read. http://www.themiracleofstjoseph.org

I never saw physical abuse if any kind, nor ever heard of sexual abuse of any kind. Most likely it is just rhetoric.

Obviously there was a tremendous amount of brainwashing, and psychological abuse to all of the congregation. The congregation felt superior to all other people in the world, and their egos were fueled by being told they were Mother Frances' Deciples, and we're all going to be saints.

Channel6 PublicAccess said...

...There is a claim that this Miracles is for all races, religions, and creeds, however this is clever marketing, and nothing more. The "Stories From Heaven" series, the 50-some volume bookset of Revelations and Visions, has the crucifix on it, and it is just a group of Roman Catholics trying to fix, and protest, the Catholic Church. It is not for all religions nor all creeds. It is just a recruitment slogan. Mother Frances I'm sure would take money from all races, religions, and creeds, as long as they convert to The Miracle of Saint Joseph. The books were at one point given to the prison system for their libraries.

Mother Frances was excommunicated from the Roman Catholic Church, and started her own Roman Catholic Church without canon law. They had Latin Mass every week, led by Father Milito (not sure of proper spelling), a Sheriff Volunteer and former Roman Catholic Priest. He said the mass the way Mother wanted it said.

The congregation went by many names including: the Saint John Viany (not sure of the spelling), The Hill of Hope, The Miracle of Saint Joseph, The City of God, and simply The Hill.
There was no land development there since the 80s, and most likely there still isn't anything going on. The congregation dwindled down to such a small number, there is no funding. There is security, and I know one of he security guards still. Mother Frances passed away awhile ago, so there isn't much anyone can ask her, nor any way to prove that she is some kind of 'True Mystic.'

Channel6 PublicAccess said...

...It is uncertain, even by the congregation, what the future plans are for the property. Being that it is closed to the public, new recruitment, and fund generation must be difficult. The books are being translated into many different languages, and the book publishing seems to be the only thing going on still.

I woke up when nobody could answer my questions: If this Miracle is so "True," then why the secret compound and all the hatred towards non-believers? Why is Mother Frances' God so intolerant of others? Why does the congregation "hate people?" Why are all the Revelations directed at the congregation, and guilt tripping the congregation into recruiting more members? Why is The Hill closed to the public, if more people need to be made aware of this Miracle, and the need for 50 volumes of repeated Revelations? Why 50 volumes, does God not know how to communicate with less words? Why did Mother Frances remain in hiding, even with armed guards? What has happened to this City of God, and why did God change his mind that the City was not built?

If anyone is thinking they might find it fun to explore in there, it's just open space, and nothing worth seeing. Not worth the risk of trespassing, because there are some real radicalized people that guard the place, and they would be willing to call the police, or even die fighting for their cause.

The men's group used to have rituals and ceremonies, it seemed like around Christian holidays, where they would dress up in black suits, gold/blue cummerbunds, and we're all toting broadswords similar to those seen in pics of Saint Michael. The men would line up in two rows, hold their cerimonial swords up, and Mother Frances would walk under them upon arriving or leaving the event. She was always driven around by her husband (Bob Klug I think his name is) in a Cadillac.

Are they a cult? Maybe. They don't capture and hold people there. There is no housing of any kind except Mother's house. They certainly do brainwashing to their congregation, but keep in mind the congregation are there voluntarily. They are more like a group of radicalized Roman Catholics, non-violent, but extremely pushy with their beliefs. They "hate" non believers, so they are hypocrites when claiming to be open to all races, religions, and creeds.

I hope this info helps bury some rumors. It seems some commenters are just looking to make up stories, or they're thinking of some other place where they were mistreated.

Like I said, I was a kid when I was there. Nobody was physically mistreated, and the congregation are a bunch of devout Roman Catholics. They are indeed a huge waste of time, and completely benign in their current state.

Ej said...

Channel 6 could you point out the church, her home and maybe identify any other buildings from this picture at the below link? Thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/ZjqdmlS.jpg

Anonymous said...

My mother and father were both members of this...faith?...religious order?...cult! The definition of cult is "a particular system of religious worship, especially with reference to its rites and ceremonies." According to my view, all religions are cults. I participated in the ceremonies on the Hill and I can't find anything bad or wrong with the vision Frances Klug had but what kills me is that if it was God's will to have this city built, it should have happened.
Disturbing to me is all the hours that my parents dedicated to this movement including countless rummage sales and bake sales and volunteer hours and where is the result promised? I was present many times when Mrs. Klug gave her talks and I was very impressed at how everything just spilled out, without a prompter or written material which seemed like a miracle to me but now that I've experienced the world I see this done on a regular basis by channelers to claim to be in contact with beings from other worlds so I don't think it was miraculous anymore. Who knows what it was.
I'm left with a very bad taste in my mouth over the whole thing because my mom and dad's work bought someone...I don't know who now...maybe her daughter, a multi-million piece of property paid for by the sweat of so many, now disappointed followers.
I saw a website once that looked like it was made by the Hill of Hope that blamed mankind for the failure but I can't find that site anymore. That chapped my hide and prompted me to look further into what others were writing about the Hill which led me to this site.
One thing that being involved in the Hill led to for me is, don't believe anybody promising such grandiose ideas until you see the results they promise. This movement fell flat, like so many others.

Ej said...

Great remembrance. The cult that never could :)