03 July 2008

St. Joseph's Hill of Hope: Cult or the true Catholicism?


It is probably the most unusual part of Carbon Canyon, this large compound concealed in the hills north of Carbon Canyon Road just inside the Brea/Orange County border before you cross into Chino Hills and San Bernardino County (photo shows the facility from across the canyon). Rumors and gossip have abounded for some 40 years about this place of which many have heard but few know much.


In July 1967, Frances Marie Klug, wife of an insurance salesperson, announced that she had been visited by God with the "Directions that He knows man needs to follow, so that one day our Souls will be with Him in Heaven," as the St. Joseph's website states it. As a "true mystic," Mrs. Klug or Mother Frances has, as she expresses it, received the "Miracle of St. Joseph" and has compiled nearly 50 volumes of revelations over the last four decades.


On examining the St. Joseph's website, it is not particularly clear what the "Miracle of St. Joseph" is, in terms of where the namesake of the miracle comes in. What you do see is Mother Frances' elaborations on the Ten Commandments, as well as what appear to be her own "Seven Heresies," including Pentecostalism; Homosexuality, Lesbianism, and Abortion; Promiscuity; Communism; Organized Crime; Satanic Movement; and Hypocrisy.


There is also a section on the website devoted to the revelations given by Mother Frances with the note that "all Revelations are delivered spontaneously and continuously as witnessed by all those present at the time."


Evidently, Mother Frances was a devoted Catholic who broke from the church to form the St. Joseph's Hill of Hope congregation. A 1972 article in Time magazine states that Mother Frances channeled St. Joseph in her revelations to her congregation and that these visitations are the "Miracle of St. Joseph". Fifty-one at the time, Mother Frances is now in her late 80s and it will be very interesting to see what happens to the St. Joseph's Hill of Hope and the Miracle of St. Joseph when she passes away.


At any rate, here is the link for the magazine article:




I'm going to post the link to the St. Joseph's Hill of Hope website with the other links for those who are curious.

51 comments:

kev said...

My Father grew up in Placentia and went to St. Josephs Catholic Church ever Sunday in Plecentia. He told me years back that the lady that started the compound came from his church... is there an evidence of this or is it just a similarity why she called here following by a similar name.

Paul said...

Hello Kev, I'm going back through old posts and caught yours just now. I don't know where Frances Krug was from before she established her compound in Carbon Canyon. It would make sense she would stay somewhat close to home and also seems plausible that she would choose the same name. Maybe someone else knows the answer? Thanks!

Ej said...

I have walked on the hill to the back of their property and always have wondered why all the tall fences and barb wire?

Paul said...

Hello ej, Well, now that Frances Klug has died, we'll see whether the organization remains or not. Thanks for the comment.

Anonymous said...

I walked along the property up there too and I did not see any fence or barb wire that was different from the adjacent properties. Conspiracy theorists shouldn't post!!!
I'd like to look at this with an open mind.
But, I also went to the same church in Placentia and can remember the legal trouble that church got into when the priests there were accused of molestations so I don't get the Hill of Hope bashing when there is plenty to see elsewhere. I say this because I have read some of the books St. Joseph's Hill has published and I admittedly report that they have changed my life for the better.

prs said...

Hello Anonymous, there have been various statements made to me by Canyon residents about armed security personnel patrolling in vans around the property. But, I have no personal knowledge of that or other comments about the way the facility is secured. I agree that people should be open-minded and not be getting carried away with conspiracy theories (including the one I've seen on the Internet that has said the government has been using the site for mysterious purposes!) I've tried to avoid being judgmental and just report what I've come across on the facility. And, indeed, the Roman Catholic Church has much to answer for in comparison to their disavowal of St. Joseph's Hill of Hope. I say this as someone raised in the Church in O.C. Thanks for the comment!

Anonymous said...

the horses in your picture belong to Mr. Bill Friend of yorba linda. He ran the cows thru the hills from behind carbon canyon park all the way to what is the end of carbon canyon road state highway 142

Ej said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Ej said...

Anonymous,

Check out the main compound using Google earth. Is that 8' fence around the building to keep people in or to keep people out?

prs said...

Hello Anonymous and EJ, thanks for your comments. Anonymous, I was just talking to a neighbor here in Sleepy Hollow who is getting ready to do an oral history with Bill Friend, so it will be interesing to see what comes out of that. Maybe I can obtain some transcripts to post on the blog.

EJ, at the last Carbon Canyon Fire Safe Council Meeting, there was some discussion about how willing the St. Joseph's people were to work with Chino Valley Independent Fire District personnel on fire suppression elements for the compound. A long-time department engineer commented that those fences were there for keep people out who might vandalize the property. So, that's one version!

Jessica said...

Speaking of Mr. Friend, my boyfriend, who lives in CH and his backyard overlooks the canyon, used to help round up Mr. Friend's cattle all the time when they got loose. It's funny to read his name somewhere!

We have driven through Carbon Canyon many times (I live in Orange County, so he comes down to get me) and I remember him telling me as we passed a road that a cult lived down that road. It had a kind of gate-thing in front of the road. Ever since he told me, I've been curious and doing lots of research...

prs said...

Hello Jessica, I understand an oral history may have been done with Mr. Friend recently and I was told his family has ranched in the Canyon for something like 100 or more years. Every so often, he can be seen in his vintage pickup tending to the animals, corrals and so on. It adds much to what remains of the rural atmosphere, however dwindling, of the Canyon. Thanks for the comment!

Anonymous said...

I can verify that there have been armed security guards present near the entrance of Hill of Hope, though I haven't seen any in a while. Years ago a fellow Sleepy Hollow friend and I hiked around the outskirts of the property- well above the official entrance- and we actually did see armed guards on that occasion, but were too high up and hidden by brush for them to take notice. Despite not having seen armed security guards for a while, I often see the same inconspicuous sedan sitting at the property's official entrance, which I find suspicious and bizarre. Do I think Hill of Hope is a cult? Yes, but I don't think they are doing anything criminal. Given all of the establishment's negative press, I can understand why it might feel armed security is necessary.

Anonymous said...

I know a lot of people from Carbon Canyon, and some friends who lived there in the 90's took their horses onto the property and were chased out by armed guards in jeeps. They came back without their horses the next afternoon and while sneaking around in the tall grass, they were attacked and blindfolded by men in black suits. Their fingerprints were taken, then they were thrown into the back of a van. They were driven around for a few minutes, then pushed out of the van. When they took off their blindfolds, they saw they were simply dumped off on the main road. Back then, the only building visible on the property was a small shed. 3 nosy locals crawling through the knee high grass caused 12 well-dressed and armed officials to jump out of a small shack and blindfold them. What are 12 guys in suits doing in a tiny shack, and how did they know my friends were crawling through the grass? There must have been cameras set up, and there must be an underground facility, otherwise, this doesn't make sense. So honestly, if you put together the facts, this doesn't sound like a religious cult... It sounds government related.

Unknown said...

Now that sounds more like it. That would explain the Stealth Fighters that flew over my house.

Anonymous said...

Stealth fighters?!?! Really?!?! If they were stealth fighters they probably wouldn't have flown so low as to be seen. Even so, this area is along a military flight path.

JD40 said...

As I read this article, the organization certainly is not Biblically founded or based, this is definitely a Catholic cult.

Anonymous said...

Please read my comments of July 30, 2012 posted after "Part 2" of the Hill of Hope story on this blog. I remember Mrs. Klug and her armed, uniformed guards coming to Sunday Mass at St. Joseph Church in Placentia halfway through services and then her leaving right after receiving Communion. She was a parishoner for a few years. But the St. Joseph Hill of Hope had no endorsement or connection with our parish, although the similar name caused confusion in the early years. By the way, her kids also attended St. Joseph School for a time. I still remember Fr. George W. Conboy at one Mass from the pulpit raising his voice and saying it was an affront to the sanctity of the church for armed guards to be present and he loudly stated he did not want firearms in the church. Several times I saw Mrs. Klug with her uniformed escort carrying pistols in holsters, wearing riding boots, etc. The first time I saw them, I thought they were CHP officers who were religious and they were attending services. When I found out they were guards "protecting" Mrs. Klug, I thought "what the heck?"

Anonymous said...

I will be honest...you people sound like you are insane. If all of you decide to say anything on this based on what you have read about it on the internet, you really have no weight behind any of your opnions. Do a lil more than read blogs on the matter...seriously.

Ian Carnochan said...

In 1986 myself and 6 of my friends hiked from the old abandoned ski slope that was in Carbon Canyon. Yes there was a artifical ski slop with a lodge and life chairs build a long time ago up there. We parked our truck near the lodge and hiked up to where there were three flags set up with a flag for the state of california, The US flag and a Christian flag. You needed to climb a 4-5 foot barb wire fence and hike a little ways farther to get to the flags. Once you got to the flags they had barb wire wrapped around the base as well as either camers or microphones attached to the flag poles. At the poles you could look dwon into the compound and there were a number of quanset huts and other out buildings. We were up there for a few minutes when we saw atvs (at that time three wheelers) coming up towards us. We bolted, flew over the fence and raced back to our truck. When we got to the truck we saw a few guys ( not dressed all in black) searching around the truck. We waited for them to leave and then got into the truck and raced home. No conspiracy theory or alien connection but maybe because of the proximity to weapons testing facility could explain the security? Who will ever know.

prs said...

Hello Ian, thanks for your comment. As other commenters have noted (and also mentioned by people spoken with in person), the Hill of Hope has, evidently, had armed security personnel patrolling their large parcel there over the years.

Anonymous said...

My son and his friends had heard that this was a cult so just yesterday they convinced me to stop to see what it was. The three of them went to the gate and a guard came out of the trailer. They said they were looking for the Boy Scout Camp. The man handed them 4 books and told them, "this is what we publish here" . The books were called Stories From Heaven , volume xxv. It is a journal of sorts from March of 2002 to July of 2002. They are the revelations received through the True Mystic, Frances Klug. I haven't read it yet, but quite interesting. They are satisfied now, I guess based on the definition of a cult, a religious movement whose beliefs are considered abnormal or bizarre by society, this could be considerded a cult. I wonder if you could tell the guy at the gate that you want to join....

prs said...

Hello Anonymous of 6 July, thanks for visiting and for the comment. Hill of Hope has been continuing about four years after the death of its founder, Frances Klug. As can be seen in comments here and on the other main post on the institution, there is plenty of debate about whether it is a cult or not.

Anonymous said...

Yikes!

MTR said...

Until recently, I was not aware of the Carbon Canyon Chronicle and the blog posts related to The Miracle of Saint Joseph. Understandably, Saint Joseph’s Hill of Hope is a topic of interest for the blog; however, I’m disappointed to discover that the blog includes information that seriously misrepresents the truth about this Miracle. I have supported, believed in, and loved The Miracle of Saint Joseph since 1970, when I first met Frances Marie Klug.

Through The Miracle of Saint Joseph, I have learned to focus on the purpose of life, the Ten Commandments, Sainthood, and the importance of my Soul. Everything from this Miracle is intended to promote holiness and lead people of all faiths to Sainthood. Whether or not the Catholic Church approves of the Miracle at this point in time, I’m confident that acceptance will occur one day. Historically, the Church has been reluctant to recognize genuine miracles such as the ones that occurred at Fatima, Lourdes, and Guadalupe, among others. It’s certainly not surprising or uncommon for authority figures to question how God might work. Consider the story of Christ Himself, who suffered the ultimate rejection.

Frances Klug traveled to Rome several times and met with Pope Paul VI, Cardinal Raimondi, and other Vatican officials. Many, many clergy members came to the Miracle and believed in the validity of it. However, their superiors consistently discouraged them from endorsing The Miracle of Saint Joseph publicly.

Several of the Chronicle blog posts include misleading or wrong information about The Miracle and Frances Klug, and I cannot begin to address all of them. For now, I would like to point out that Frances Marie Klug was not a “seer.” She was a True Mystic who was chosen by God to deliver His Words to the world.

While healthy skepticism can be a very good thing, my hope is that the blog audience will consider how logical it is that God might send a special Miracle to help the world deal with the incredible challenges that we are currently facing.

With that, I encourage anyone who would like more information about The Miracle of Saint Joseph to simply read the Revelations that are available (without charge) on the website at www.themiracleofsaintjoseph.org. Thank you for this opportunity to offer another perspective, and God bless.

prs said...

Hello MTR, the posts in this blog were carefully written to avoid making personal judgments about St. Joseph's Hill of Hope. Readers can do that on their own without any encouragement here. If there was any agenda here, it would be easy enough to delete comments to serve that view, but that's not what this blog is here to do. Believers and non-believers should be free to express their differences with a request to be respectful. Thanks for the comment.

MTR said...

I left a response comment last week, but apparently a glitch occurred and it was missed. So I'll give it another try:

Hello PRS,
I totally agree that readers should be free to express their differences on the blog. I appreciate your willingness and fairness in publishing varying points of view, including mine. That's not the source of my disappointment.

To clarify, my disappointment lies not with the blog format or you, but rather with the way that Saint Joseph's Hill of Hope has been misunderstood (as reflected by the comments to some blog posts and by several inaccuracies within the posts). Although it's outside the scope of a blog to clear up so many misunderstandings, my earlier comment was intended simply as one small step in offering readers another point of view. Thank you!

prs said...

Hello MTR, thanks for the follow-up and for the clarification. I appreciate the fact that people can comment any which way about topics in this blog (within reason) and that, when it comes to religion, differences of view/opinion/belief are not so much about inaccuracy, but about faith. So, the debate(s) will continue . . .

Ej said...

Mr. MTR could you please address the high level of security at Saint Joseph’s Hill of Hope? Here in the United States religion is free from persecution so the perception Saint Joseph’s Hill of Hope gives off with it's high level of security only makes the rumors fly. Why not have a open house? Take the guarded gate and barbwire away and welcome the public with open arms?

MTR said...

Hello Ej,
You must have a different idea of "high level" than I do ... the security on Saint Joseph's Hill of Hope is fairly low key, at least in my book. The fence that marks the property line was actually installed by the previous owners and was already in place before the land was ever purchased by the Hill of Hope. The fence is not much different from others you typically see in rural areas. The neighbors actually appreciate the fence, as some of them have cattle and livestock to maintain.

The fence also discourages trespassers, because vandalism and property damage have occurred on the property in the past. Unfortunately, it's necessary to deal with the practical reality that we live in a world where some folks do go out looking for trouble. To think otherwise is naive. As you are probably aware, many churches have been forced to curtail their hours of operation and lock the doors due to vandalism incidents.

The Hill of Hope personnel respond to any potential trouble by simply reminding trespassers that the property is private and asking them to leave the land the way they came in. For those who refuse to leave or who become out of hand, the policy is to call law enforcement to handle the situation. But everyone is treated fairly and with respect, unlike some of the unfounded rumors you refer to.

The front entrance simply serves as a gateway to the property for volunteers and a place where mail and other deliveries can be received. For liability reasons, it doesn't make sense to have visitors arriving unannounced and driving all over 440 acres on dirt roads where they might encounter snakes, deer, coyotes, poison oak and so forth.

Anonymous said...

You people are out of your minds (in exception of a few rational) I have been on that property and its not a cult. There are no armed guards. There is one guy in a mobile home type guard shack to keep out idiots from tresspassing onto what was Frances Marie Klugs home!!! She lived there. There is a small staff who also lived there to help her take care of the property. They have members who all practice their catholic faith and also attend local churches. If you ever saw the CHP look a like on white harley davidsons was for funerals. There is only a few buildings on the property and at one time a small catholic school that I attended as a ten year old over thirty years ago. There is a grotto with a live well that has a holy water fountain that is pretty cool. There are marble statues here and there and catholic type shrines. She was just very religious but a very sweet and kind woman. She was totally legit as far as a know...I mean she kicked it with the pope. There were more members that held functions on the property and all over town. They donated to charities and raised money to help the poor etc. It is not a cult and a bunch of whack jobs dont live there with armed guards. Apparently Robert Klug had alot of dough and he and his wife Frances chose to buy that property and use it to share it with a small local catholic community. They dont need idiots coming on to the property to destroy the statues or shrines (that she paid for out of her pocket) or people off roading and getting hurt and suing. They are not hurting anyone or themselves...just catholics doing there thing. If you tresspass you are entering her home where her family lives. If that were my house and yard I would shoot any idiot that stepped foot but thats just me. So there you go. The rest of you go apply at macdonalds and do something productive with yourselves.

Anonymous said...

They hold church services and prayer meetings on sundays for roman catholics. If you are a legitimate catholic you could attend church services there. If you are trying to enter under other circumstances then obviously you are not welcome. How would you feel if those three geniuses came to your front door poking around and asking questions because they have a moral responsibility to report to the public what your doing in your home. Liberal life sucking deadbeats need to mind your own business and get a job. Stop worrying about what other people have and earn your own. I said earn not steal or tresspass on other peoples property sticking your nose where you shouldnt. Now as for Frances Marie Klug being some religious cult leader is nonsense. She felt she was a true mystic and wanted to change bad things going on in the catholic church. She devoted her life to this and helping people to better themselves. So what If she talked to god...she tried to teach people some morals. There is no coolaid drinking or child slaving armed guards in vans. I mean this guy with the reputation of chino hills crap. What about the strip club owning tax evading pimp who was murdered in his carbon canyon home in the 80s. All you can do is cry about some 80 year old religous woman who tried to save the world??? What the hell is wrong with you people. Thats why there is an 8 foot gate to keep you losers at bay. Who cares about people praying on a hill??? Is it so loud your windows are rattling??? In this country everyone has a right to religion. In this country you can own PRIVATE PROPERTY! In this country you can own FIREARMS! I invite anyone to enter my private property to see my firearm...you will find religion as I exercise my baddass redempion of your sins. Pick on me not some 80 year old churchlady who tried to tell the priests to not touch kids and fix the wrong in the church. Was she knocking on your door with her stories from heaven? No she had the dude at the gate hand it out because your a moron and would probably benifit. yours truly...St Joseph.
And oh yeah...STAY OFF MY HILL!!!

Ej said...

Are you saying that Frances Krug is so afraid of trespassers she feels the need to place high security fences around each of the compounds? Are you also saying her church will not welcome anyone outside the religion?

Anonymous said...

Shes dead genius... do you have a door on your house or do you let some thug come in and vandalize and steal. No amount of you running your idiot mouth will make you right. G.f.y.

Ej said...

Door yes. High security fence no. Please if you can answer the questions in a decent tone. Were you taught to talk like that at the compound?

prs said...

Hello Anonymous of 24 November: let me say again that there is no position being taken on the St. Joseph Hill of Hope on this blog. If you're a member of the church, you're obvious entitled to defend the church to Ej or anyone else who has questions about it or is opposed to it--to which views they also are entitled. But, if there are personal attacks, name-calling, and so on, then a line has got to be drawn and comments can be deleted, which is not the desired result here. Debate is welcome, but let's keep it civil, whether you are a believer or not.

Anonymous said...

Ok but you keep asking the same question over and over. Several people answered your question. You have the answers. That makes you annoying. You just keep repeating what you would like the situation to be. Go get your dictionary and sit down with some coffee and re-read. You are either slow or you want fantasy. We live out here to have privacy. YOU are the one trespassing and breaking the law. Put your tape measure away and stop measuring the size of the gate...who cares??? The gate was already there. Everybody has a fence. Do you need to hear about that they are aliens with coolaid and they are cooking meth??? You have the answer ten times over. Believe what you want...call the FBI and tell them you would like to head a full investigation. I can make up some liberal hippey story for you if you cant grasp the reality. Sit back and let the grown folks talk.

prs said...

Hi Anonymous, this is not Ej, who you were having the exchange with--this is the person who keeps the blog. I'm just asking for people to be reasonable in their comments. Thanks.

Anonymous said...

Let me tell you something prs...you are the worst offender here and I will tell you why respectfully even though im livid. In no way do I represent the hill or affiliated due to my lifestyle. When you verbally bash otherwise harmless, religous people mostly in their twilight years (especially deceased) by putting this nonsense out offends alot of reasonable people. You are putting yourself out for the same. When I personally happen upon elderly, children or anybody being persecuted or abused for no reason it does not set right with me and most people. Almost like a community bully in so many words. This blog is bullshit. I dont think you would appreciate me calling you out in the community and making up bs about what you do on your property and in your home. I am sure that the people at the hill would be offended by the way I bluntly speak even if its in their favor.I dont care. I would not sit by and watch someone get abused for no reason. These people are harmless. You should be greatfull its not some obnoxious crazy neighbors we have over there doing things that REALLY are up to no good and terrorizing our community. I mean please...its like kicking amish because you dont like there hats. You seem like a reasonable person. Have a little respect and you'll get the same. Kick the harmless around and one day it will come around.

prs said...

Hello Anonymous, did you see my comment of 18 October 2010? Or the exchanges with MTR, a longtime member of the Hill of Hope, just within the last month, including my replies to MTR on 28 October and 4 November? Can you point out where the posts on this blog verbally bash the Hill of Hope or persecute and abuse its members? It's fair enough to disagree with what's on this blog, but I went out of my way to report what others have published and kept my opinions out of it. Show me otherwise and we can go from there.

Ej said...

While I have never set foot on St. Josephs property I have seen it from my adjoining property over the years. For anyone who might be curious here is the three separate buildings at the rear of the property not seen from the street. To me the fencing doesn't keep people off the property since the property is not fenced in with this tall security fence but rather the fencing is placed around each building almost like they were more interested about keeping someone or something in. Anyways here is a link you can see for yourself.

http://www.zillow.com/homes/Brea-CA/17150_rid/days_sort/33.955917,-117.792859,33.955276,-117.793858_rect/19_zm/

Anonymous said...

I agree. It doesn't look like any church I attended. Lots of concrete.

Ej said...

Fun stories to read:

http://articles.latimes.com/1990-09-04/local/me-623_1_chino-hills


http://www.ocregister.com/articles/klug-536550-hill-hope.html


Anonymous said...

Ok so yes I have seen what you put in your comments. The fact is your title refers to the hill as a cult. If I posted a blog asking if your a child molester or do you just like to hang out with kids would be totally offensive. You are doing the same thing. These people are religious and what you are saying is about as offensive as that to them. Now im sure you are not a child molester like they are not a cult. You refuse to accept the truth and its far past ignorance at this point. Do you think im just trying to cover up some conspiracy? It does not make sense. There is not some group of people living there againts their will. There is no coolaid drinking and so on. There is a house that the surviving family members live in. There is another building that used to be a small school. I have no idea what they use it for now. That does not mean 40 people are posted up with guns for Jesus to arrive. There is a large warehouse type building that they use as a chapel. There are more smaller buildings they use for storage for chairs and statues etc. They have religous functions on and off the property and store the stuff in those buildings. People show up on sunday for church services and during the week for other smaller functions. There is only a few people on the property otherwise. How is that a cult? Oh I forgot... the 8 foot fence...maybe we should Assume things due to the fact you really dont have a clue since you are ignorant to what goes on. Well now your not. Does what im saying make sense or does the fantasy of yours sound better. Its like talking to a stubborn five year old. You only want to hear what you want. You can spin all day long but the facts are facts. You are offending these people for no reason because YOU dreamed up a situation due to ignorance. You are the one who created the blog...no other info on web states this except yours. Does not matter to you what goes on up there...you keep going on about it and that makes you a fool.

prs said...

Anonymous, the title asks a question: "Cult or True Catholicism?" Mrs. Klug and her followers believe the latter and their views have been given in this blog, while some people think the former and their opinions also are featured. I've never once said it was a cult nor have I said anything critical about the organization. They have every right to be there and practice their religion their way. If you don't accept what I've said here, there's nothing more for me to say about it.

Finally, there are, actually, other Web pages in which the word "cult" is used in discussing the Hill of Hope. Here are links to a few:

http://www.ocregister.com/articles/klug-536550-hill-hope.html?page=3

http://www.insidesocal.com/davidallen/2008/04/03/sleepy-hollow-needs-edit/.

http://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/gec-earth-browsing/6UmB-NSHqzU

http://www.strangeusa.com/articles/57490/_Chino_Hills__Chino_Hills__CA

http://www.chacha.com/question/what-is-the-carbon-canyon-cult.

Tim said...

When I lived in Sleepy Hollow back in the 70's, a friend and I got caught trespassing on their property, and they called the Brea police on us.Not very friendly of them.

Katedee said...

I came across this blog as our MSJ Capistrano docents let us know about the future talk about Carbon Canyon and as a native of Orange County my parents actually joined a country club there in the mid 1960's and I loved the area so read this blog. As a knowledgable Catholic who was raised during the latest attempt to destroy the faith (which is ongoing) I am greatful that such a place exsists. There are many pre novos ordo churchs that are in isolated areas and bad areas due to the expense of financing a church where God is actually worshipped. There are never fund raising just giving by the people who attend to support building and the brave Priest who worship as had been done for almost 2,000 years. The thing is that the gossip is destroying good. To encourage gossip is to participate in it and so you are a part by allowing and supporting it. Thanks to those who call you out on your passive approval. "Failure to comdem is to condone".

prs said...

Hello Katedee, thanks for your comment. To reiterate what has been said to other commenters: what has been posted on this blog about St. Joseph's Hill of Hope is presenting information (not opinion) on one aspect of Carbon Canyon's history and current affairs.

If people choose to comment and offer their opinions, then generally no censorship is going to take place, although this administrator (who was raised Catholic, but refrains from offering opinions on this topic) retains the latitude to remove posts.

The bottom line is this blog does not "condemn" free speech (nor has there ever been
encouragement, condoning, or "passive approval," however that may be defined, of "gossip"), even if there are those who don't like what is being said . . . whether it is for or against(or neither) St. Joseph's Hill of Hope.

The most popular post, by far, on this blog is about the murder of a strip club owner and there have been dozens of posts by people who were (or maybe are still) part of that industry, including the man who committed that crime. Comments are not censored there and, in fact, are welcomed within reason, but is posting about that historical incident an embrace and condoning of stripping or, for that matter, of murder?

kevalar said...

MTR, does the "Miricle of St. Joseph" declare in any way that St. Joseph himself is the Holy Spirit? I have heard that Frances Klug espoused that teaching. Please clarify. Thank you

MTR said...

In response to the question from Kevalar: Yes, absolutely. As early as 1977, the Divine Revelations given through The Miracle of Saint Joseph included the announcement that Saint Joseph, in reality, is The Third Person of The Holy Trinity. With thoughtful consideration, one can easily see the logic and truth of Saint Joseph being so much more than a Just, Holy Man. Also, this helps explain the title of The Miracle.

My apologies for the belated response, as I did not notice the latest blog post until recently.
MTR

Ryan H. Turner said...

Not going to add to the "cult" discussion as I'm particularly sensitive that term being Mormon, HOWEVER, I DID just go hike from my house up to the water towers northeast of Olinda Village, then out the trail to the "8 ft fence with barbed wire". If I could post pics I would. It's very much there. And I never ever thought it was for anything BUT keeping idiots out. It's private property. Period.

I AM intrigued by someone claiming that God would speak to them...just from a "I wonder what happened" sort of thing. To the person who claimed men in suits blindfolded them and essentially kidnapped them....I'm wearing thigh boots to wade through your b.s. Please.....